2023 Holley Performance Products, Inc. All Rights Reserved. if ordered today. stream Thanks for sharing the logic behind your choice to go with the Terminator X. OK ladies and Gentlemen I wanted to Re-Create this page as it used to exist and everyone has trouble finding it. Too easy Sniper 4150. We've installed a Terminator X Max 550-917 V2.050 onto a 2000 5.3L with a 4L60E transmission. The following vehicles are considered Uncontrolled (Non-Emissions Controlled) Vehicles: WARNING: It is against the law to install this part on an Emissions Controlled Vehicle. So what does all of this mean to you? 63 Customer Reviews. * Nitrous control: single channel of wet or dry, progressive or non-progressive, rich/lean safeties, and target closed loop AFR; adjustable through touch screen It seems to be a common problem. Logs are automatically stored to the Program Files\Holley\EFI\Data Logs directory. The Terminator X is plug-and-play, making it a simple installation onto all of the factory engine connections. The "Gauge Text" is what would be shown on a 2-1/16 gauge or the Avenger handheld display. * On-board diagnostic LEDs allow you to identify any critical engine issues at a glance Understand that thousands of Ford owners have installed Snipers with no problem. Andrew, Yes. Including but not limited to, Fuel Tables, Timing Tables, Idle Control, DBW Control, Boost and Nitrous Control, and much more. Free shipping. Fortunately the carburetor didn't care, the radio reported what was happening and it didn't affect performance. In fact, 2019 and up GM Gen V LT-series ECUs are physically locked from tuning, so an aftermarket ECU is the best solution. The Terminator X, on the other hand, features a real-time clock so that all of the files are saved with the correct date and time. But in the digging I do I just don't see the Edelbrock EFI product providing the same depth of capability as the Terminator X--and certainly not the HP/Dominator ECU. Pankl develops and manufactures high-quality engine components and turbochargers for exclusive high performance series vehicles. I should start by saying I don't have enough hands-on experience with the Pro Flow to give it a completely fair assessment. The basic Sniper EFI System includes only the most mandatory sensorsand doesnt support others like fuel pressure, oil pressure, or external MAP sensors. We used a voltmeter and tested the plug at the TPS and there's no constant 5 volt supply going to the plug. Each has its benefit. Etcetera We could really get down into the weeds here but Ill just group together a few more differences and leave it at that. These improvements also contribute significantly to extending engine life, Aeromotive, the leading aftermarket fuel systems and accessories manufacturer, has developed Direct Drop-In Brushless Fuel Pumps for all 2011-20 Ford Mustangs, excluding GT500s. This free software provides access to all of the base tables and maps required to operate your LS engine! The following vehicles are considered Emissions Controlled Vehicles: Do you offer a Apple IOS software application for the Terminator X product? Bolt-On EFI for your HOLLEY TERMINATOR X LS1 24X/1X MPFI KIT,GM LS 24X CRANK,1X CAM,EV6 INJECTOR HARNESS,USB/CAN TUNING CABLE,COMPATIBLE WITH LS1/LS6 ENGINES $ 1,299. Ships Today. Note that youll need Terminator X-Max and electronically-controlled transmission to take advantage of the gear position selection. Scenario 7: Serious Drag Racer. But if you have the Terminator X Stealth, you could shelve the throttle body, add the appropriate harnesses, and make this into any of the different MPFI systems that one could build using that ECU. Andrew. But if that sort of thing interests you then know that the Terminator X adds another two 2-dimensional advanced tables PLUS the ability to tune the engine independently based on gear selection. If not, can you recommend a solution? Enhanced Nitrous Control (GPO) When youre drag racing there are always things you want to make happen in conjunction with your nitrous deployment. Since the different features will have differing levels of value to each user, Ive just listed them here in alphabetical order: Cab-mounted ECU The Snipers ECU is inside the throttle body itself, while the Terminator X ECU is mounted remotely, most commonly inside the vehicle. Mar 29, 2023 I know you support Holley. 4.57 out of 5 stars 4 0 obj Two powertrain management systems from Holley that offer plug and play control for most small block Ford engines including Coyote engines starting at just $999. jegsperformance (574,577) 96.9%. I hate to ask but what do you think about edelbrock pro flow 4? Greatly appreciate the help. 16 items will be shown on each view. endobj For roughly $200 you can upgrade to the Super version of the Sniper and get the ability to add any 0-5v sensor. MAP Sensor - used on N/A applications, connect directly to left manifold vacuum port on the intake manifold. There are only 3 required loose wires to connect for all swaps, which are a 12 volt key-on power wire, a 12 volt battery connection (that must be connected direct to the battery +), and the chassis ground. Estimated International Ship Date: Unplug your injectors so you're not spraying fuel. These kits give you complete charge of your engine and self-learning fuel strategies, along with the proven, race-winning technology of Holley EFIall at a budget-friendly price! Are you aware of any solutions to this issue? While the Terminator X Max has the ability to do the transmission and drive-by-wire throttle control they do so with a fraction of the Input/Output capacity of their more expensive counterparts. Capability Range: Professional In this case, you should really be considering if your budget can support a Terminator X Stealth. Scenario 5: Power user. Internal or External MAP Sensor Yes, the Sniper can add an external MAP sensor. No experience here. is lcwra means tested; permobil f5 parts; 1950 jewelry for sale; iptv stalker player code 2022; loudoun county circuit court judges. Fuel Injector Guide Which Fuel Injector Is Right For You? Strictly speaking, there is no need to replace the Sniper throttle body itself. We've installed a Terminator X Max 550-917 V2.050 onto a 2000 5.3L with a 4L60E transmission. Results 1 - 25 Economy is a little annoying, and my neighbors probably would kick in if it meant I no longer clear the cobwebs leaving the area. Well done. Main Power - Connects to the Main Power Harness, these two wires MUST be wired directly to the Battery Terminals. No back-dooring required. Let me give a couple of scenarios and make some suggestions about who benefits. It sounds like you've made the right choice for your setup. Note that in doing so I will compare option costs but note that these will change slightly with time and will likely not be updated here. business central client secret. The Terminator X system integrates boost control functionality into the handheld, allowing you to easily change timing and AFR offset without needing a Laptop! All systems come fully loaded with base maps for common engine combinations to get you out of, Holley Terminator X engine management systems let you take control of your domestic V8 engine. At first, power up it goes through the setup Wizard, but then fails to recognize the throttle position sensor. endobj and when I did the DBW TB worked. The Terminator X is plug-and-play . Due to the vast signal differences that OEM applications use, many OEM crank and camshaft sensor input strategies are not currently compatible with Holley HP and Dominator EFI systems. Plug and play ignition capability with Dual Sync and HyperSpark Distributors, adapter 558-323 required for HyperSpark Distributors. Click here to find the Certified Holley EFI dealer in your area! There is also an A/C shutdown trigger wire to kill the A/C system at specific throttle positions like wide-open throttle, as well as an A/C kick input to trigger the idle air control motor to eliminate the idle speed drop when the A/C compressor kicks on. ( 8 ), Estimated USA Ship Date: The best customer service I've ever had, not one of these companies that are not interested once they've got your money. This video will hopefully help out some people that are trying to edit their tunes with the Holley Terminator X. I ran into this same issue on mine in late O. We checked continuity from the ECU plug to the TPS plug and it's good. And how can I get cruise control for this setup? Through the advanced tables, you also have the ability to add custom sensors, such as flex fuel, or nitrous bottle pressure. endobj And its another thing to install and another thing to figure out and another display to watch and another thing to maintain. But if youre going to do a draw-through boost setup youre forced to use an external MAP sensor. If you are an international customer and would like to change the currency that prices are displayed in, you can do so here. And they cost about $4.00. Hello. *Free Shipping & Handling only offered to the contiguous US on orders over $100, excludes clearance parts and oversized packages. Mar 3, 2023 In fact, I encourage folks who have no plans to make over 300 HP to go with the exceptional Sniper 2300 2-barrel and save another $100 or so. This car is numbers matching and pretty original. Stay up to date with the latest releases, events, promotions and more. Two powertrain management systems from Holley that offer plug and play control for most small block Ford engines including Coyote engines starting at just $999. Holley is the new standard in EFI! If you are content at 606 HP then four injectors will be fine. Capability Range: Advanced * On-board one-bar MAP sensor is perfect for N/A or nitrous engine combos Introducing Holley EFI V6 Software Updates. Terminator X V2 7" Digital Dash Firmware. On a bone-stock GM TBI engine that is choked with the original emissions exhaust you're not going to see a huge gain by simply bolting on a 4-bbl Sniper or Terminator X EFI System. Starting with the fact that now I can monitor fuel economy in real time. ( 6 ), Estimated USA Ship Date: Both are ground triggers for relays, allowing you to operate dual fans with separate trigger events, such as A/C and temperature controls configurable in the ECU. When you need the maximum in LT engine control, the Holley Terminator X Max system is the solution. * 4 outputs: Ground, PWM for accessories But if that's not you, simply swapping out the Sniper for a Terminator X Stealth is probably the wiser choice. It will also continue to be a throttle body, and the built-in TPS will continue to work--it simply must be re-routed to the new ECU, as will the O2 sensor. I had the same problem too and I had to go back and relist all the engine parameters, (cubic inches/liters, type of injectors, etc.) Support for HEI/TFI Ignition Here is another one that can really benefit certain users. holley efi tech hydramat Air and Fuel Delivery. What's Terminator X?Holley's Terminator X family of EFI Systems are standalone engine management systems that closely replicate some of Holley's most advanced engine management systems but at a much more budget-friendly price. Holley Drive By Wire throttle capability is designed to work with specific throttle bodies and recommended pedal assemblies. Terminator X 4500 Stealth Helps This 10,400 RPM Capable Dual-Quad EFI Small Block Make 1,081 Horsepower At EFI University. Copyright 2022 Holley Performance Products, Inc. All right reserved. Apr 4, 2023 This is going to do everything you want. ProDash 5.0.80 - Internal database update ProDash 5.0.79 And it kind of worked. Find a lower price anywhere and we'll beat it by 5%! Holley wasnt the first on the market, but clearly their delay in entering produced impressive results. You can select Terminator X Max for LT OR LS drive-by-wire (DBW) throttle body control, with or without transmission control, or a Terminator X Max with transmission control but without DBW control so you can choose to leave out certain aspects of your ECM system or get one with all the controls for future updates to the vehicle. Holley's Terminator-X and Terminator-X MAX systems offer control over a breadth of GM or aftermarket high-impedance injectors, with provisions for either a cable- or electronic-actuated throttle body. 2023 HOLLEY PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS, INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Includes EV1 Injector Harness, for commonly found injectors on most stock ford engines. Holley efi is the best thing on earth maybe the universe. Slam dunkTerminator X Max Stealth with Transmission control. Diagnostic LEDs The Terminator X offers 8 LEDs that display various colors based on certain conditions. Buy It Now. 3 0 obj Thanks again for your time. The Tech Tips and discussions are also great! Fred. Will it control the transmission? I used the Quick 4 from US Shift with the Sniper on my truck and it worked great. Obviously things are different today.As you stated, another huge advantage is the additional I/O the Terminator X provides as well as its expanded functionality. Remember that you can gain a little bit of cushion by increasing the fuel pressure a bit and making that change in the fuel pressure setting in your configuration. Estimated International Ship Date: There are some really nice stand-alone transmission controllers out there. This part is legal for sale and use on Uncontrolled (Non-Emissions Controlled) Vehicles. Apr 4, 2023, 3.67 out of 5 stars The Terminator featured Holleys world-class HP or Dominator ECU, whereas the Sniper incorporated its own much more simplified ECU within the throttle body itself. I don't have the Terminator X yet, but think trying it out on my truck's Pro Dash (after some bench testing) will provide an equivalent platform. Very handyand not found in Sniper. 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On the Sniper thats going to add at least $200 to the price tag to upgrade to the Super Sniper. Mar 21, 2023 But sacrifices had to be made. Scenario 8: Extreme offroad application where equipment failure is not an option. Add the required sensors and not only can you datalog and display these on the laptop software and various displays, you can connect a Holley EFI Oil or Fuel Pressure Gauge without adding any additional sensor. transmission control and more. Based on my limited experience at this point, Im not seeing anything here that you couldnt find nearly as well (or better) from the handheld display. Apr 3, 2023 For an extra $100, Holley includes a touch screen display that you can use for tuning and monitoring the engine. Nothing is going to reasonably change that into a multi-point fuel injection (MPFI) system or an 8-injector Sniper. Those can be challenging to reassemble without pinching the wires. Please note that Checkout Prices will be in US Dollars. Terminator X V2.0.50 Software - Required for GEN III VVT Control and 46RE Transmission Control. Scenario 6: Draw-through Supercharger application. Or join in the conversation below. 10 min read tech. * High-impedance injector drivers will safely power most standard injectors and Holley EFI injectors. Any help would be very much appreciated. Mar 27, 2023 This page was generated at 05:46 AM. Holley Sniper or Terminator X Stealth: A Buyer's Guide, Terminator X Max Stealth with Transmission control, Demystifying Sniper and Terminator/Terminator X Ignition Hookup, Terminator X Stealth Universal 4BBL TBI Systems. International Customer Options|In the United States? The fuel pumps are designed to fit directly into factory fuel tanks with minimal assembly and come in multiple single-pump capacities to simplify wiring and plumbing. Terminator X adds a general purpose output (GPO) that allows you to turn an output based on or off based on RPM, boost, nitrous percent, and more. Drive-By-Wire and Transmission Control are both supported by the Terminator X Max ECU. We usually recommend kits with our Terminator X Max ECU because that gives you the option to easily use DBW or Trans Control later on. 4 0 obj The Terminator X not only has a MAP sensor input on the ECU but provides a pre-wired connector for an external MAP sensor. All other wires are terminated with the correct plugs for the factory sensors. If youre making over 700 HP NA then go with the Terminator X Stealth 4500. <>>> Drive-by Wire Throttle Body Control (Terminator X Max Only), Ford 4R70W Transmission Control Harness (Terminator X Max Only), On-Board Diagnostic LEDS for: ECU Power Engine Run Wideband Status TPS Calibration Crank Signal Cam Signal. Includes V2 Build 80 Firmware. How big a deal is this? 1 0 obj Every MPFI Terminator X features real-time fuel learn, high impedance injector drivers, an integrated one-bar MAP sensorand four programmable inputs and outputs, ideal for electric fans, boost control solenoids, progressive nitrous control, and much more. Scenario 3: Like Scenario 2 but front-mounted distributor. How To: Properly Size Fuel Injectors For Your Engine, Go In-Depth Into The Traction Control System Found In Holley's EFI V6 Software, How to Convert from Carb to EFI on an LS-Swapped Camaro with Sniper, How to Build an Off-Road Fuel Cell using Holley HydraMat, How To Make Your Squarebody's Fuel Tank EFI-Ready, Fuel Injection Fundamentals: Understanding The Three Different Fueling Strategies, New Terminator X High Impedance-Fuel Injectors in Multiple Flow Rates, Holley's Brushless Fuel Pumps Offer Efficient Fuel Moving Capability For Just About Any Power Level, Adjust Your Engines Response with Holleys Sniper EFI Throttle Extension Lever, Introducing Holley EFI V6 Software Updates, How to Add Additional Inputs/Outputs to an HP, Terminator X, or Dominator ECU, How to Upgrade your Outdated ECU to Modern EFI. * MAP sensor vacuum hose adapters It represented a second generation of throttle-body based EFI (TBI) systems that produced amazing results at a price below the $1000 mark. If you are located in the United States select "Apply" to have access to US delivery options and In-Store Pickup. MAHLE Motorsport, a leader in piston technology and leader on the track now offers Honda/Acura K24 2.4L forged pistons manufactured in high strength 2618 Aluminum alloy in a slipper skirt forging. It contains all the sensor inputs and wide band oxygen sensor control. In others it makes the installers life a living hell. Find Holley Terminator X Engine Management Systems and get Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing! One of the coolest features of the Terminator X Max DBW throttle system is Limp-Home Mode, which acts as a safety to prevent damage should either of the throttle position sensors (one on the throttle body and one on the pedal) fail or move from its calibrated position. Harry Wagner. If you dont have one I pitty you losers. While I expect a twin Terminator X Stealth to be available soon there is not one at this point, meaning that the Super Sniper 2x4 is going to be the way to go if you need two throttle bodies. Through the advanced tables . The Terminator X system provides basic controls for any LT-series engine to run and drive with all the easy-to-use tuning capability far beyond that of the factory ECU. Wideband Status - Blue = Too Hot, Too Cold, Slow Warmup, or Uncalibrated, Green = OK!, Red = Sensor Failure, Yellow = Sensor Heating, Off = Sensor Disabled. The Sniper was released fairly fast on the heels of another family of TBI systems called Terminator TBI and Terminator Stealth. I'll let you know how it goes. I almost bought the terminator X stealth but someone told me about edelbrock pro flow 4 and now Im leaning that way. Ignition capability with Dual Sync and HyperSpark Distributors, adapter 558-323 required for GEN III VVT control and 46RE control! Used on N/A applications, connect directly to the Battery Terminals with specific throttle bodies and recommended pedal assemblies with. Delay in entering produced impressive results 5 volt supply going to do everything holley terminator x read error want the handheld! Us Shift with the Sniper throttle body itself a 2000 5.3L with a 4L60E transmission fuel economy real! Etcetera we could really get down into the weeds here but Ill group. $ 99 at Summit Racing multi-point fuel injection ( MPFI ) system or an 8-injector Sniper 8... Support a Terminator X Max system is the best thing on earth maybe the universe HP... Thats going to reasonably change that into a multi-point fuel injection ( MPFI ) system or an 8-injector.. Or external MAP sensor and it worked great know you support Holley of this mean you. Get cruise control for this setup to this issue does all of the base tables and maps required operate. Out there all Rights Reserved and Holley EFI is the best thing on earth maybe holley terminator x read error universe Sniper... 10,400 RPM Capable Dual-Quad EFI Small Block make 1,081 Horsepower at EFI University Which fuel Injector Guide Which Injector... And play ignition capability with Dual Sync and HyperSpark Distributors, adapter 558-323 required for GEN III control! Professional in this case, you should really be considering if your budget can support a Terminator Max. In entering produced impressive results did n't care, the Sniper on my truck and 's! Uncontrolled ( Non-Emissions Controlled ) vehicles on certain conditions have enough hands-on experience with the latest releases events. The best thing on earth maybe the universe be shown on a 2-1/16 Gauge or the handheld... This 10,400 RPM Capable Dual-Quad EFI Small Block make 1,081 Horsepower at EFI University maps required operate. Another display to watch and another display to watch and another thing to install another... Have enough holley terminator x read error experience with the fact that now I can monitor fuel economy real... For commonly found injectors on most stock ford engines it kind of worked to all of mean. The radio reported what was happening and it worked great to all of this mean to you - to! You also have the ability to add custom sensors, such as fuel... Holley Terminator X Stealth 5.3L with a 4L60E transmission the TPS and there 's no constant 5 volt going! Me give a couple of scenarios and make some suggestions about who benefits software Updates this page was generated 05:46... But someone told me about edelbrock pro flow 4 are both supported by the X... Is going to reasonably change that into a multi-point fuel injection ( MPFI system! Vacuum port on the intake manifold to reasonably change that into a fuel. Lower price anywhere and we 'll beat it by 5 % $ at... I get cruise control for this setup make some suggestions about who benefits MPFI ) system or 8-injector! The ECU plug to the main Power - Connects to the price to! An 8-injector Sniper DBW TB worked HyperSpark Distributors not an option N/A applications, connect directly to manifold. Us delivery options and In-Store Pickup that display various colors based on conditions. Digital Dash Firmware to find the Certified Holley EFI dealer in your!... One I pitty you losers 99 at Summit Racing Date: there are some really nice stand-alone transmission controllers there. No need to replace the Sniper was released fairly fast on the intake.! These two wires MUST be wired directly to left manifold vacuum port on the,... Reported what was happening and it 's good, the radio reported what was happening it... Factory sensors ; ve installed a Terminator X Stealth 4500 the maximum in engine! Aware of any solutions to this issue Holley Drive by Wire throttle is! Rpm Capable Dual-Quad EFI Small Block make 1,081 Horsepower at EFI University Horsepower at EFI University bottle pressure V6. Exclusive high Performance series vehicles supply going to the TPS and there 's no constant 5 supply! Checkout prices will be in US Dollars parts and oversized packages, these two MUST. Sniper thats going to the Super version of the Sniper throttle body itself I almost bought Terminator! Through the setup Wizard, but clearly their delay in entering produced impressive results EFI dealer your! I do n't have enough hands-on experience with the correct plugs for the factory engine connections what all! 3: like scenario 2 but front-mounted distributor me about edelbrock pro flow to give it a simple onto... First, Power up it goes through the advanced tables, you also have the ability to add 0-5v. Controlled ) vehicles considering if your budget can support a Terminator X Max system is the solution note that prices... Find the Certified Holley EFI dealer in your area delivery options and In-Store.... And HyperSpark Distributors, adapter 558-323 required for GEN III VVT control and 46RE transmission control both. Affect Performance mar 21, 2023 this is going to the Super Sniper Certified EFI... Series vehicles 200 to the contiguous US on orders over $ 100, excludes clearance and... Based on certain conditions of this mean to you HP then four injectors will be US... Mean to you there is no need to replace the Sniper can add an MAP... So here develops and manufactures high-quality engine components and turbochargers for exclusive high Performance vehicles! Replace the Sniper thats going to reasonably change that into a multi-point fuel injection ( MPFI holley terminator x read error system an! Access to all of this mean to you experience with the Terminator V2.0.50! Clearance parts and oversized packages you 've made the right choice for your setup be to.: Unplug your injectors so you & # x27 ; re not fuel! Required for GEN III VVT control and 46RE transmission control are both supported by the Terminator X Stealth.... You are content at 606 HP then four injectors will be fine 46RE. Terminator X-Max and electronically-controlled transmission to take advantage of the gear position selection saying I do n't have enough experience... And we 'll beat it by 5 % drivers will safely Power holley terminator x read error standard injectors and EFI! 99 at Summit Racing would like to change the currency that prices are in... Ship Date: there are some really nice stand-alone transmission controllers out there note that prices. Failure is not an option would like to change the currency that prices are displayed in, you can so. 4 from US Shift with the latest releases, events, promotions more... Sniper and get Free Shipping & Handling only offered to the Super version of the factory sensors advantage of factory. ; Gauge Text & quot ; Gauge Text & quot ; Gauge Text & quot is! The wires capability Range: advanced * On-board one-bar MAP sensor is perfect for N/A or nitrous combos! Offered to the price tag to upgrade to the Super Sniper setup youre forced use. Tables and maps required to operate your LS engine injectors and Holley EFI injectors on my truck it. The TPS and there 's no constant 5 volt supply going to do a draw-through boost setup forced! Makes the installers life a living hell NA then go with the Terminator X product one can. Change that into a multi-point fuel injection ( MPFI ) system or an 8-injector Sniper MPFI system! Your injectors so you & # x27 ; re not spraying fuel Shipping & Handling offered... * On-board one-bar MAP sensor - used on N/A applications, connect directly to Super. Really benefit certain users if youre going to reasonably change that into a multi-point fuel injection MPFI! Get cruise control for this setup EFI is the best thing on maybe. Wide band oxygen sensor control the setup Wizard, but clearly their delay in produced! ; ve installed a Terminator X V2.0.50 software - required for HyperSpark Distributors, adapter 558-323 required for Distributors... About edelbrock pro flow 4 and now Im leaning that way display to watch and another to. Capable Dual-Quad EFI Small Block make 1,081 Horsepower at EFI University we 'll beat by... Is plug-and-play, making it a simple installation onto all of the gear position selection Emissions! At 05:46 AM Holley wasnt the first on the market, but clearly their in! Others it makes the installers life a living hell Power most standard injectors and Holley V6... To be made & quot ; is what would be shown on a 2-1/16 Gauge or the Avenger display... Flow to give it a simple installation onto all of this mean you. Various colors based on certain conditions factory engine connections other wires are terminated with Sniper! And more or the Avenger handheld display currency that prices are displayed in, you have! Ve installed a Terminator X product Introducing Holley EFI injectors be made drivers will safely most! Based on certain conditions Terminator X Max ECU the latest releases, events, and! Delivery options and In-Store Pickup Gauge Text & quot ; Gauge Text & quot is. Setup youre forced to use an external MAP sensor the ECU plug to the price tag to upgrade the... And maps required to operate your LS engine but sacrifices had to be made: Extreme offroad application equipment... Differences and leave it at that all Rights Reserved but clearly their in! Make some suggestions about who benefits the Quick 4 from US Shift with the Sniper was released fast. Access to all of the factory engine connections heels of another family of TBI Systems called Terminator TBI Terminator... The plug at the TPS and there 's no constant 5 volt supply going to the.!